Welcome
Who is Catullus?  Links
Catullus Forum   Search Translations
 

  Available Finnish translations:  
 
1 2 2b 3 4 5 6 7 8 9
10 11 12 13 14 14b 15 16 17 21
22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31
32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41
42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51
52 53 54 55 56 57 58 58b 59 60
61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69 70
71 72 73 74 75 76 77 78 78b 79
80 81 82 83 84 85 86 87 88 89
90 91 92 93 94 95 95b 96 97 98
99 100 101 102 103 104 105 106 107 108
109 110 111 112 113 114 115 116
 

  Available languages:  
 
Latin
Afrikaans   Albanian   Arabic
Brazilian Port.   Bulgarian   Castellano
Catalan   Chinese   Croatian
Czech   Danish   Dutch
English   Esperanto   Estonian
Finnish   French   Frisian
German   Greek   Gronings
Hebrew   Hindi   Hungarian
Interlingua   Irish   Italian
Japanese   Korean   Limburgs
Norwegian   Persian   Polish
Portuguese   Rioplatense   Romanian
Russian   Scanned   Serbian
Spanish   Swedish   Telugu
Turkish   Ukrainian   Vercellese
Welsh  
 

  Gaius Valerius Catullus     
About Me
Send a Reaction
Read Reactions
 

 
Catullus Forum

Main  ::  Translations - all  ::  Carmen 51  ::  Catullus 51 - Gender of Stanza 1 (Carmen 51)

<<  •  >>

AuthorMessage
Brendan
Posted on Sun Nov 20, 2005 10:03:43  
In Catullus 51, Catullus has modeled his poem after Sappho 31. In Sappho 31, the object of attention is a man who Sappho is fawning over. However, as Catullus gives his take on the same poem, he directs the attention to Lesbia. The genders are reversed from Sappho to Catullus, and this seems to require a complete change of the entire poem. Although the first stanza characterizes Catullus using the mascule form "ille", that description, when used by Sappho, is kept masculine to agree with the man who is the object of attention. It is my feeling that in Catullus 51 the first stanza, although written as masculine, should be translated to agree with the second stanza - the description of Lesbia. I'm not sure how you would classify this transfer of gender roles, yet it seems to make much more sense to have the first stanza agree with Lesbia in the second.

*Edit* I have done some more research into the context of this poem, and apparently the reasoning for the Masculine references of the first stanza are that Catullus is seeing a man who many girls are attracted to - this isn't a sign of Catullus having mixed feelings, rather it introduces jealousy of the man more than attraction. *Edit*
semper ubi sub ubi
Suzanne
Posted at Sun Nov 06, 2005 07:22:37  Quote
I did not see the gender issue, although I cannot read Latin. We know Sappho loved women; in her poem, she is in awe of the man that can talk to the woman she is enamored with, without feeling burning sensations, tongue-tied, etc. Catullus feels the same about the man who is talking and laughing with Lesbia with no physical ill effect.

Catullus' comments about leisure being his problem were a departure from Sappho. It seemed like a right-turn sort of ending.
Guest
Posted at Wed Mar 07, 2007 10:04:08  Quote
The "gender" comments seem to me a bit confused. The Catullus and Sappho are just alike: in each case, the speaker says that a male seems to be the equal of the gods as he listens to and (in Catullus) watches a female (unnamed in Sappho; in Catullus' case, Lesbia). The difference (which is indeed an important one) is that in Sappho 31 the speaker ("Sappho") is a woman, in Catullus 51, the speaker ("Catullus") is a male.

Jenny
Guest
Posted at Mon Mar 19, 2007 03:35:38  Quote
Personally, I believe the ending to be some kind of medieval addition - Catullus does not seem to often engage in moralization in his own poems.
Chris Weimer
Posted at Tue Mar 20, 2007 14:18:48  Quote
Quote:
  Personally, I believe the ending to be some kind of medieval addition - Catullus does not seem to often engage in moralization in his own poems.

Yes he does. The whole of poem 76 is moralizing. Besides, the otium/otio/otium repeats the ille/ille/qui he has in the first stanza. Finally, the language is overwhelmingly Catullan. There's one more reason, but I'm saving that for a paper I want published.
Guest
Posted at Wed Nov 09, 2011 23:21:21  Quote
The opening lines of Poem 8 are plenty moralizing, too.
 


  � copyright 1995-2010 by Rudy Negenborn
   Nedstat